Loren Coleman Hilights a difference between Erickson/Ketchum Project and Pangboche Yeti Finger DNA tests

In a comment to Loren Coleman's post on Cryptomundo titled, "Pangboche Yeti Finger In Context: What Does Human Mean?" An astute reader asks a very important question:

Wendigo Truth Force responds:December 28th, 2011 at 11:34 am

So I’m a little confused here, admittedly. They found this [Pangboche Yeti] finger bone the other day? And DNA testing is already complete? I thought it took much longer, and that was part of the reason the Ketchum/Erickson debacle is taking so long

Loren Coleman has a great response explaining when the Pangboche Yeti finger bone was found and highlights, by example, a difference between the two DNA studies.

Loren Coleman responds:December 28th, 2011 at 11:44 am

The Pangboche finger was found some time ago, filming of interviews were conducted, Peter Byrne was flown in, more taping occurred, and in the meantime the DNA analysis was taking place. A timeline was not published, but it is apparent this BBC program has been in the works for some time. However, unlike the Erickson Project, there were no leaks.

He is referring to the Erickson Project leaks by several sources, the one with the loosest lips may be Richard Stubstad.

Watch this clip from Unsolved Mysteries: Episode #4.29. This 1992 episode talks about the Pangboche Yeti Hand and interviews Loren Coleman at some length.

The Pangboche Five: The Shorter Version of the Yeti Finger History

(left to right: Tom Slick, Peter Byrne, Jimmy Stewart, Gloria Stewart, Dr. Osman Hill)

By now you may know the Pangboche finger has been tested and has been declared human based on DNA evidence. This does not make the story behind the retrieval of the Pangboche Yeti Finger any less intriguing. In a nut shell this is how the PangbocheYeti Finger was found, lost and found again.

Tom Slick Finances (1916 – October 6, 1962) A San Antonio, Texas based inventor, businessman, adventurer, and heir to an oil business. Possibly the the model for the Dos Equis "most interesting man in the world" commercials. In 1957 he finances a 3-year American Yeti Expedition led by Peter Byrne.

Peter Byrne Travels

In his own words: "In 1958, the second year of the three year American Yeti expedition...I and my brother Bryan were camped in a meadow close to the temple of Pangboche." 

Peter ended up talking Yeti stuff with a temple custodian and finds out there is a Yeti hand in the temple and is even invited to see it.

Again, in his own words, Peter describes the hand, "The find-of what looked to me like a partially mummified primate hand, black and glistening from the oily smoke of the temple lamps-was very exciting and I immediately sent a runner off to India with a cable to Tom Slick, telling him  about it."

Tom Slick, "Get That Hand!"

Peter Byrne writes he receives word back, "Slick said that it was imperative that we get  the hand and bring it to England, where it could be scientifically examined under controlled conditions. Failing that we should try and get at least one finger and then get it to London where an associate of his, a Dr. Osman Hill, a renowned British primatologist, would examine it and determine its authenticity."

Peter Byrne asks for a Hand-out

I talked with the Nepalese-speaking lama about borrowing the hand for examination and he consulted with the other custodians. The answer was no. The hand must not leave the temple. Taking it from the temple would disturb the local deities and bring bad luck.”

There are two stories how Byrne was able to overcome this hurdle. According to the first version Byrne told decades ago, he solved the problem by getting the monk on duty that night drunk on rum and, when the monk passed out, switching a human fingerbone for one of the bones in the Pangboche Hand. A later story told to Mike Allsop, an adventurer who was interested in the Pangboche Yeti Hand history.

“So I made a  counter proposition, which was that they give me a just one finger and that this would suffice. They all sat down and pondered on this for a couple of days and then agreed to my request if two things were done. One, I would have to replace the finger with another finger. And, two, I would  have to make a substantial contribution towards the upkeep of the temple."

Tom, Peter and Dr. Osman Shake Hands
Peter Byrne goes to London to meet with Tom Slick and Dr Osman to discus the plans for replacing the hand. Peter decribes the luncheon to Allsop, "we discussed a strategy for getting the finger and replacing it with another one. The problem, of course, was getting a replacement. But this was quickly solved by Osman Hill who had brought a human hand with him…which he produced from a brown paper bag..."  Yes, had probably been carrying a human hand in a brown paper bag and brought it to lunch.

>> Fast forward: Peter returns to the Temple and gets the finger

Tom Slick: Give Jimmy Stewart the Finger
In a letter to Mike Allsop, Byrne recalls instructions from Tom Slick to deliver the finger to Jimmy and Gloria Stewart, "“Another cable arrived from Slick and in it was a further instruction…  go to Calcutta, take the finger with you, get there soon, and plan to meet with a Mr. and Mrs. Stewart at the Grand Hotel, on Chowringhee Road;  they will be expecting you and they will take the finger and get it to Osman Hill in London.

“So I hiked down to the border again, took another train to Calcutta, took a taxi to the Grand and booked in. A few hours later I knocked on the door of an upstairs suite and was warmly greeted by the famous and quite delightful Stewarts, Jimmy and Gloria.

“I handed over the finger, after which we had a most enjoyable evening together and a very good dinner at the Grand’s Casanova restaurant.”

The Stewarts as Stewards
The Toronto Sun recaps the tale. "...Gloria Stewart told the story of how she and Jimmy decided to smuggle the finger out of India in her lingerie case. Yes, as well as smuggling antiquities out of sovereign countries, celebrities and other women of a certain social strata used to travel with special baggage for their undies, etc.

As Gloria later told the story, the lingerie case was missing when the Stewarts finally arrived at the Dorchester Hotel in London. A few days later, Her Majesty’s Customs Service contacted the Stewarts to arrange a meeting.

At the appointed time and place, a young Customs official appeared — with Gloria’s lingerie case in hand. After due courtesies, the awe-struck young movie buff gave Gloria the case, shook the Stewarts’ hands and took his leave from the Hollywood royals."

Dr. Osman Hill Primate Authority
The good doctor was a leading authority on primate anatomy during the 20th century. It says so on his wikipedia page.

"William Charles Osman Hill (13 July 1901 – 25 January 1975) was a British anatomist,primatologist, and a leading authority on primate anatomy during the 20th century. He is best known for his nearly completed eight-volume series, Primates: Comparative Anatomy and Taxonomy, which covered all living and extinct primates known at the time in full detail and contained illustrations created by his wife, Yvonne. Schooled at King Edward VI Camp Hill School for Boys in Birmingham and University of Birmingham, he went on to publish 248 works and accumulated a vast collection of primate specimens that are now stored at the Royal College of Surgeons of England."-- SRC: Wikipedia contributors, "William Charles Osman Hill," Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=William_Charles_Osman_Hill&oldid=451353600 (accessed December 28, 2011).

His Findings?
According to a Toronto Sun Article earlier this year:

Maybe yes. Maybe no. But not human. And not ape. Something in between. Osmond Smith’s  first finding was that the finger bones were “hominid” — the broad anthropological category of upright walkers that includes modern humans and Neanderthals. He later refined that verdict to say the sample was a closer match to Neanderthal than modern human.

Don’t forget, this is  back in 1959 and 1960, loooong before DNA testing.

However, another member of Tom Slick’s scientific team, American anthropologist George Agogino, also received a portion on the Pangboche finger. And in 1991, Agogino turned it over to an NBC program called Unsolved Mysteries — and they did tests.

I’m sorry to say nothing conclusive came from these studies either — not human, not ape — but if you don’t have a yeti to compare your sample to, how ya gonna know it’s a yeti?

Unsolved Mysteries
Below is the clip from unsolved nysteries:

To read what happened next and the DNA results check out our post http://www.bigfootlunchclub.com/2011/12/bbc-news-pangboche-finger-is-human-not.html

BBC News: Pangboche Finger is Human, not Yeti

DNA tests support Pangboche finger is human

If you stayed up late last night (or actually early this morning)  you could hear the conclusion of the DNA test on the Pangboche Finger. As we announced yesterday on our post BBC Radio 4: Full Results of Pangboche Yeti Finger Test the Pangboche Finger was an artifact that was stolen from the Pangboche Monastery and believed to belong to a Yeti.

Below is an Excerpt from the a BBC article that followed the broadcast of the Radio show. The article confirms the results that support the finger is, indeed, human.

Yeti expeditionProfessor Hill's notes recorded that the finger had been brought to him by Peter Byrne, a former explorer and mountaineer. 

Mr Byrne is now 85, and living in the United States, I discovered. When he recently visited London, I arranged to meet him. 

He did indeed bring the yeti's finger to London, he explained. His story began in 1958, when he was a member of an expedition sent to the Himalayas, to look for evidence of the legendary Abominable Snowman. 

"We found ourselves one day camped at a temple called Pangboche," Mr Byrne told me. 

Peter Byrne was photographed in 1958/9 with the head lama at Pangboche monastery

"The temple had a number of Sherpa custodians. I heard one of them speaking Nepalese, which I speak.  

"He told me that they had in the temple the hand of a yeti which had been there for many years. 

"It looked like a large human hand. It was covered with crusted black, broken skin. 

"It was very oily from the candles and the oil lamps in the temple. The fingers were hooked and curled." 

"Osmond Hill said, 'You have got to get this hand. We've got to see it. We want to examine it.' But I had already asked the lamas there if I could have the hand and they said no, it would bring bad luck, disaster to the temple if it was taken away."Prof Hill and Mr Slick asked Mr Byrne to go back and at least try to get one finger with permission from the temple's custodians. 

The plan was to replace the missing finger with a human finger. Prof Hill then brought out a brown paper bag and tipped out a human hand onto the table."It was several months old and dried. I never asked him where he got it from."Returning to the temple, he gave a donation in return for the finger, and then wired the human finger onto the relic. 

The expedition sponsor Tom Slick helped ensure the finger would reach London safely with the help of his friend, the Hollywood actor James Stewart and his wife Gloria who were in India at the time. 

They were to meet in the Grand Hotel in Calcutta, said Mr Byrne.Continue reading the main story"They were a little bit worried about customs, so Gloria hid it in her lingerie case and they got out of India no trouble." 

"They arrived at Heathrow, but the lingerie case was missing," 

A few days later, a customs official returned the case to the Hollywood couple, reassuring Gloria that a British customs officer would "never open a lady's lingerie case." 

The finger was handed over to Prof Hill after which, Mr Byrne explained, he lost contact with him. 

DNA testBut could this finger really have come from a yeti? 

The Royal College of Surgeons granted a request for a DNA test to be carried out on a tiny sliver of the finger. 

The finger is of human origin, according to Dr Rob Jones, senior scientist at the Zoological Society of Scotland. 

"We have got a very, very strong match to a number of existing reference sequences on human DNA databases. 

"It's very similar to existing human sequences from China and that region of Asia but we don't have enough resolution to be confident of a racial identification."

Src: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-16264752 

Want to listen to the conclusion? Matthew Hill presents Yeti's Finger on BBC Radio 4.  

BBC Radio 4: Full Results of Pangboche Yeti Finger Test

The Yeti' finger, pictured that was displayed at London's Royal College of Surgeons

UPDATE: Click to read the results of the Pangboche Yeti Finger

The Pangboche finger, as you can guess, is part of the Pangboche hand. The hand was one of two artifacts, (the other was a scalp) that were stolen from a Buddhist monastery in Pangboche, Nepal. We have covered multiple stories regarding the Pangboche artifacts in the past.

Loren Coleman, Cryptomundo contributor, is responsible for confirming many of the stories surrounding the Tom Slick expedition that discovered the Pamboche artifacts. 

Cryptozoologist Loren Coleman rediscovered this story while writing Tom Slick's biography in the 1980s. Coleman confirmed details of the incidents with written materials in the Slick archives, interviews with Byrne, and correspondence with Stewart. -- Wikipedia contributors, "Pangboche Hand," Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pangboche_Hand&oldid=451541253(accessed December 27, 2011).

You can read some recent news regarding BBC 4's announcement of the Finger DNA at Cryptomundo by Loren Coleman and an excerpt from the Daily News Article. Below is a reprint from the BBC 4 radio show titled "Yeti's Finger"

Pangboche Hand and Skull Cap.

High up a remote Himalayan Mountain in Nepal is a Buddhist monastery. The monks say there is no doubt yeti's roam the high forest, they see and hear them and they sometimes even attack people. The tantalising prospect of being the first to prove that this mythical ape like creature actually exists has been the goal many explorers - but the beast has always evaded capture. Then the discovery of a supposed yeti's hand kept in the monastery set off a remarkable chain of events that drew in a mountain explorer, an American oil tycoon, a Hollywood film star and a high tech lab for forensic science in Scotland. But is it a yeti? 

Some people will go to extraordinary lengths to be the first. Tom Slick, an American oil tycoon, had the money and the desire to try to prove that yetis really do exist. He used his vast wealth to mount expeditions, sending off climber and explorer Peter Byrne into the most remote areas of the Himalayas to follow any leads he came across, and one seemed worth investigating further - a hand of a "yeti" in Pangboche monastery in Nepal. Byrne did a deal with the monks and replaced one finger of the hand with a human finger and arranged to have the yeti finger smuggled back to London. 

How the finger actually reached London is a most bizarre tale that involved Hollywood film star James Stewart concealing it in his wife's lingerie case. And then the trail went cold. Slick died, Byrne went onto other things and the finger was lost to the world until it was found by chance in a forgotten collection of curiosities in the Royal College of Surgeons in London. New scientific techniques are now applied to see if the yeti's finger really is what it claims to be - or if not - what on earth has a finger like that? 

Presenter: Matthew Hill
Producer: Mary Colwell
Editor: Julian Hector 

You can catch Loren's Take at Cryptomundo
Read the history of The Pangboche Finger at Daily Mail
Listen to The results at BBC 4

Pangboche Monastery Awaiting Yeti Hand

The Times of India has an article regarding the Pangboche Yeti Skull and Hand from the perspective of the Monastery. This is also somewhat of an update to our previous post, Yeti Hand Replica Delivered to Nepal.

'Yeti' lends helping hand to Nepal monastery again
KATHMANDU: It sounds like an implausible April Fool stunt but after almost a decade, a centuries-old Buddhist monastery struggling in the foot region of Mt Everest is now going to get a fresh lease of life, thanks to the yeti.

The Pangboche monastery, built around a rock in Khumbu in northern Nepal, called the gateway to the world's highest peak, survived for centuries on donations given by foreign trekkers and mountaineers who visited the over 600-year-old edifice lured by tales of it possessing the skull and a hand of the yeti, the legendary beast who inspired an expedition by Sir Edmund Hillary himself and was the subject of a book by another Everest hero, Reinhold Messner.

"I saw the skull and the hand in the late 1980s after I returned from New Zealand," says Ang Rita Sherpa, senior programme manager at The Mountain Institute that last year helped restore the crumbling down monastery with financial assistance from the US Ambassador's Fund. "Both were stolen in the early 1990s. After the monastery lost its main source of tourist attraction, it fell into hardship, barely able to sustain itself."

Now however, things are gong to change. Later this month, Hillary's fellow country man Mike Allsop, an "adventurer", guide and Everest summiter, will return to the forlorn monastery with a unique gift: a replica of the stolen hand and skull made by Weta Workshop, the five-time Oscar winning company that makes special effect props for the entertainment industry.

Allsop visited the monastery in 2007, the same year he conquered Mt Everest, and developed a special rapport with one of its venerable lamas. Moved by the plight of the monks on having lost their bread-earning artifacts, he decided to gift them a replica till his campaign – Return the hand – manages to trace the originals.

Were they really the hand and skull of the yeti? Many of the lamas and locals believe so. In 1950, explorer Peter Byrne and Hollywood actor James Stewart – he of such notable films as The Philadelphia Story, Rear Window, Rope and The man who knew too much -- visited the monastery and managed to take out one of the fingers. However, when they submitted it for tests, they proved inconclusive.

"We have heard of Allsop's plans though we are not in touch with him," Sherpa said. "While I would not comment on the authenticity of the originals, I am glad the monastery will have a source of income once more."

EXTERNAL LINKS
'Yeti' lends helping hand to Nepal monastery again

YOU MAY ALSO LIKE
Yeti Hand Replica Delivered to Nepal
New Search for Lost Yeti Artifacts of Nepal

Yeti Hand Replica Delivered to Nepal

In our previous post New Search for Lost Yeti Artifacts of Nepal we mentioned how Kiwi adventurer and Air New Zealand pilot, Mike Allsop, plans on finding the Yeti skull and skeletal hand. These artifacts were stolen a monastery in the tiny Nepalese village of Pangboche, in the 1990s.

He has commissioned special effects shop Weta Workshops, a multi-award winning conceptual design and physical manufacturing facility known for their work on the Lord of the Rings trilogy and the Narnia films, to create replicas of the skull cap and skeletal hand in order to replace what was stolen.

Ultimately Allsop is hoping someone will return the originals, "I am hoping that the person who has them wants to give them back."



We also mentioned Allsop will hand-deliver the replicas to the monastery when he and 17 Air NZ co-workers travel to Pangboche in April. Its April and the Dominion Post has an update on the story.

Pilot to return to Nepal with 'yeti hand'
STACEY WOOD

Yetis, monks, thieves and Jimmy Stewart. Mike Allsop's tale has all the makings of a Hollywood movie.

But there is nothing phony about his mission to help restore the pride of the 1000-year-old Pangboche monastery in Nepal, nestled high in the Himalayan foothills near Mt Everest base camp.

Mr Allsop, an Air New Zealand pilot, Everest climber and adventurer, will return to the monastery this month with a special gift from Sir Richard Taylor's Weta Workshop.

The replica hand is a copy of the monastery's "original" yeti hand, which was stolen by persons unknown in the 1990s.

The hand, and part of a skull that proved to be from a rare goat, provided the monastery's small source of income, from tourists who came to see the artefacts.

In the 1950s, explorer Peter Byrne and Hollywood actor Jimmy Stewart conspired to take one finger from the hand and have it tested in Britain, but the results were inconclusive, Mr Allsop said.

"There's two stories – one says Peter Byrne got the monks drunk and switched the finger. But I've spoken to him, and he says he offered to pay the monks and they agreed to let him take it."

Since the rest of the skeletal hand and the skull part were pinched in the 1990s, the monastery and its leader, Lama Gershe, have been without their main source of income. Mr Allsop hopes the replica items will help it survive until he can track down the originals.

He admits being sceptical about the existence of yetis, but said the legend was real enough to the monks.

"I asked Lama Gershe if he believed in it, and he started arguing with his wife in front of me. His daughter was translating for me and I asked her what they were fighting about.

"She told me he'd said his wife's friend was attacked at her back door by a yeti five years ago – and she'd said no, it was 10 years.

"And the sherpas, if they're around other people, they'll tell you they don't believe, but get them alone and they'll say: 'We don't have problems with yetis ... except in monsoon season."'

Mr Allsop has had a special connection with Pangboche since he first visited on his way to climb Everest in 2007. Lama Gershe helped to name his youngest son, Dylan Michael Dalha Allsop.

Last year when his eldest son, Ethan, turned seven he took him to see Everest and Pangboche, and plans to do the same with his younger children when they reach the same age.

He will leave for the monastery, with 15 Air New Zealand staff, on April 17 to install the replica artefacts in a secure glass case.

He hopes his campaign, Return The Hand, will locate the original bones, but time may be running out for Lama Gershe, who suffered a stroke last year.

THE MYTH OF THE YETI

The yeti, or abominable snowman, is one of the most famous mythological creatures. It is said to inhabit the mountainous areas of Nepal, Tibet and India.

Several explorers, including Peter Byrne, believe they have found tracks and dung belonging to yeti.

Sir Edmund Hillary, conqueror of Mt Everest, led an expedition in 1960 with a team of 21 scientists, climbers and other specialists, along with 310 Sherpas, to do scientific research on acclimatisation to altitude and to hunt for yetis. They failed to find any but brought back hair samples. Fellow Everest conqueror Tenzing Norgay told Sir Ed his father had twice seen a yeti.

Sir Ed's long-time friend, Tom Scott, said Sir Ed did not believe in the yeti but liked the concept. "The locals believed in them and Ed felt really bad for myth-busting them. He liked the possibility of the yeti. If someone found one, he would have been delighted."

- The Dominion Post

EXTERNAL LINKS
Kiwi adventurer leads Yeti hunt (12/05/2010)
Pilot to return to Nepal with 'yeti hand' (04/01/2011)

YOU MAY ALSO LIKE
New Search for Lost Yeti Artifacts of Nepal (12/05/2011)
Yeti Hairs DNA Test: Update (07/30/2008)

New Search for Lost Yeti Artifacts of Nepal

Kiwi adventurer leads Yeti hunt
NEIL REID - Sunday News

New Zealand (Sunday News) — A KIWI adventurer is leading an international Yeti hunt.

Mike Allsop, who conquered Mt Everest three years ago, is searching for the skull and skeletal hand of what was said to be a mythical "Abominable Snowman".

The controversial artefacts were stolen from a monastery in the tiny Nepalese village of Pangboche, in the 1990s.

"I am hoping that the person who has them wants to give them back," Allsop told Sunday News. "I hope they will have an alert set up on their computer for whenever the artefacts are mentioned on the internet.

"I am offering... to go and reclaim them. I will go anywhere in the world in person, free of charge, no questions asked and I will also buy them a beer."

Weta Workshops has created life-sized replicas of the skull and hand to help searchers find the real things.

Allsop, 41, is an Air New Zealand pilot and was introduced to Weta boss Sir Richard Taylor by Air NZ chief executive Rob Fyfe.

Allsop will hand-deliver the replicas to the monastery when he and 17 Air NZ co-workers travel to Pangboche in April.

The original Pangboche hand and skull came to international prominence in the 1950s.

Texan adventurer and oil magnate Tom Slick photographed the items during one of his early missions to find the Yeti in 1957.

Two years later, one of Slick's team returned to the Pangboche monastery.

He reportedly drank Scotch with a monk until the local passed out, before stealing bone fragments from the hand. He then supposedly replaced the bones with those from a human hand, before rewrapping the Pangboche hand to disguise his theft.

The stolen fragments were allegedly smuggled back to America by a Hollywood star.

Then in 1999, the skull and what remained of the skeletal hand were stolen from the monastery.

Allsop, who scaled Mt Everest in 2007, was intrigued when he learned of the artefacts and determined to reclaim them for the monastery.

"These were very treasured artefacts," he said. "There was a huge outrage when they were stolen.

"The monks initially wouldn't show them to anyone, then slowly they showed them... unfortunately they showed them to one person too many."

Check out the Nepalese Yeti on the AKA Bigfoot World Map (below). Click on the icon to read about the Nepalese Yeti.


View AKA Bigfoot World Map in a larger map

You May Also Like
DNA Test on Yeti Hairs

External Links
SRC: Stuffz Sunday News