Wednesday, December 28, 2011

Loren Coleman Hilights a difference between Erickson/Ketchum Project and Pangboche Yeti Finger DNA tests


In a comment to Loren Coleman's post on Cryptomundo titled, "Pangboche Yeti Finger In Context: What Does Human Mean?" An astute reader asks a very important question:
Wendigo Truth Force responds:
So I’m a little confused here, admittedly. They found this [Pangboche Yeti] finger bone the other day? And DNA testing is already complete? I thought it took much longer, and that was part of the reason the Ketchum/Erickson debacle is taking so long

Loren Coleman has a great response explaining when the Pangboche Yeti finger bone was found and highlights, by example, a difference between the two DNA studies.

Loren Coleman responds:
The Pangboche finger was found some time ago, filming of interviews were conducted, Peter Byrne was flown in, more taping occurred, and in the meantime the DNA analysis was taking place. A timeline was not published, but it is apparent this BBC program has been in the works for some time. However, unlike the Erickson Project, there were no leaks.
He is referring to the Erickson Project leaks by several sources, the one with the loosest lips may be Richard Stubstad.

Watch this clip from Unsolved Mysteries: Episode #4.29. This 1992 episode talks about the Pangboche Yeti Hand and interviews Loren Coleman at some length.

Erickson What?! Its called the Ketchum Study! Sasquatch DNA Drama Continues



** UPDATE: Please read the correction supplied by Richard Stubstad on Apr 8, 2012  in the comments below.

 A couple of comments from Richard Stubstad indicate Dr Melba Ketchum as the "Official" lead on the Sasquatch DNA research. It is now called the Ketchum Study. Whenever Stubstad refers to the Erickson Project Ketchum Study, "Ketchum" is in quotes. We don't know why. It could be the internet equivalent of underlining her name three times, with arrows pointing to the name.

In a post we did earlier about Dr Meldrum titled, "Meldrum is Interviewed by NPR and is criticized by Wired Magazine" Stubstad responds and breaks the news of the new title of the Sasquatch DNA research:
 "I have discussed with Jeff Meldrum some of the DNA findings and conclusions I reached early on in the "Ketchum" study (as it is now called).
I did not hear the interview, but I think he is extremely intrigued about the progress that other scientists have made in the discovery process, now in terms of complete DNA genomic sequencing.
While neither Meldrum nor I am in possession of irrefutable proof that "sasquatch exists" as a new hominid or subspecies of an existing or past hominid, we do have compelling evidence that this is so -- far beyond the footprints, Double-pleaked normal Distribution of footprint lengths and widths, dermal ridges, and questionable video and film footage.
The latter is at least possible to hoax; but not DNA.
Richard Stubstad
Dec 28, 2011 12:38:00 PM 

In another comment to the post, "Robert Lindsay Gives Biscardi Benefit of the Doubt." Richard offers Biscardi's early role in the Erickson Project Ketchum Study:

Your take on Biscardi is probably correct. It's all about publicity (he's from the Las Vegas show scene, you know?).
Java Bob once told me that Biscardi's MO is: "bad publicity is better than no publicity at all".
The interesting thing is: Now and then he is correct; using the "saturation" method, he's bound to be.
We (that is, an ad-hoc group as the proverbial "we") are currently collecting potential sasquatch DNA samples for a so-called "parallel" study by a non-North American research lab. We have about a dozen samples so far, and we are (of course) vetting these samples before accepting them into the study. Guess who provided the first sample -- once again? Biscardi, that's right. Our vetting procedures indicated his sample was likely from a sasquatch (75% certain; we can't do any better than that without first doing DNA sequencing).
For the "Ketchum" study, he also provided the first samples for the currently ongoing project. Out of five samples, only one tested positively certain as being a hominid other than typical modern human or chimp, etc.
Some of the others were not tested; one may also be from a sasquatch; I just don't know, since it was never tested (to my knowledge).
By comparison, Erickson submitted six DNA samples to the "Ketchum" study; I know for a fact that the first two of these were both from "an unknown hominid", as it were. I have also heard the other four were equally viable -- and non-modern human.
The moral of the story is: Some folks do their homework well; some do not. Both manage to contribute to the state-of-the-art come hell or high water.
Richard Stubstad
Dec 28, 2011 12:27:00 PM

You can go to Richard's Website http://www.sciencealivenews.com/


The Pangboche Five: The Shorter Version of the Yeti Finger History

(left to right: Tom Slick, Peter Byrne, Jimmy Stewart, Gloria Stewart, Dr. Osman Hill)


By now you may know the Pangboche finger has been tested and has been declared human based on DNA evidence. This does not make the story behind the retrieval of the Pangboche Yeti Finger any less intriguing. In a nut shell this is how the PangbocheYeti Finger was found, lost and found again.

Tom Slick Finances (1916 – October 6, 1962) A San Antonio, Texas based inventor, businessman, adventurer, and heir to an oil business. Possibly the the model for the Dos Equis "most interesting man in the world" commercials. In 1957 he finances a 3-year American Yeti Expedition led by Peter Byrne.




Peter Byrne Travels
In his own words: "In 1958, the second year of the three year American Yeti expedition...I and my brother Bryan were camped in a meadow close to the temple of Pangboche." 

Peter ended up talking Yeti stuff with a temple custodian and finds out there is a Yeti hand in the temple and is even invited to see it.

Again, in his own words, Peter describes the hand, "The find-of what looked to me like a partially mummified primate hand, black and glistening from the oily smoke of the temple lamps-was very exciting and I immediately sent a runner off to India with a cable to Tom Slick, telling him  about it."

Tom Slick, "Get That Hand!"
Peter Byrne writes he receives word back, "Slick said that it was imperative that we get  the hand and bring it to England, where it could be scientifically examined under controlled conditions. Failing that we should try and get at least one finger and then get it to London where an associate of his, a Dr. Osman Hill, a renowned British primatologist, would examine it and determine its authenticity."


Peter Byrne asks for a Hand-out
I talked with the Nepalese-speaking lama about borrowing the hand for examination and he consulted with the other custodians. The answer was no. The hand must not leave the temple. Taking it from the temple would disturb the local deities and bring bad luck.”

There are two stories how Byrne was able to overcome this hurdle. According to the first version Byrne told decades ago, he solved the problem by getting the monk on duty that night drunk on rum and, when the monk passed out, switching a human fingerbone for one of the bones in the Pangboche Hand. A later story told to Mike Allsop, an adventurer who was interested in the Pangboche Yeti Hand history.
“So I made a  counter proposition, which was that they give me a just one finger and that this would suffice. They all sat down and pondered on this for a couple of days and then agreed to my request if two things were done. One, I would have to replace the finger with another finger. And, two, I would  have to make a substantial contribution towards the upkeep of the temple."

Tom, Peter and Dr. Osman Shake Hands
Peter Byrne goes to London to meet with Tom Slick and Dr Osman to discus the plans for replacing the hand. Peter decribes the luncheon to Allsop, "we discussed a strategy for getting the finger and replacing it with another one. The problem, of course, was getting a replacement. But this was quickly solved by Osman Hill who had brought a human hand with him…which he produced from a brown paper bag..."  Yes, had probably been carrying a human hand in a brown paper bag and brought it to lunch.

>> Fast forward: Peter returns to the Temple and gets the finger

Tom Slick: Give Jimmy Stewart the Finger
In a letter to Mike Allsop, Byrne recalls instructions from Tom Slick to deliver the finger to Jimmy and Gloria Stewart, "“Another cable arrived from Slick and in it was a further instruction…  go to Calcutta, take the finger with you, get there soon, and plan to meet with a Mr. and Mrs. Stewart at the Grand Hotel, on Chowringhee Road;  they will be expecting you and they will take the finger and get it to Osman Hill in London.

“So I hiked down to the border again, took another train to Calcutta, took a taxi to the Grand and booked in. A few hours later I knocked on the door of an upstairs suite and was warmly greeted by the famous and quite delightful Stewarts, Jimmy and Gloria.

“I handed over the finger, after which we had a most enjoyable evening together and a very good dinner at the Grand’s Casanova restaurant.”

The Stewarts as Stewards
The Toronto Sun recaps the tale. "...Gloria Stewart told the story of how she and Jimmy decided to smuggle the finger out of India in her lingerie case. Yes, as well as smuggling antiquities out of sovereign countries, celebrities and other women of a certain social strata used to travel with special baggage for their undies, etc.

As Gloria later told the story, the lingerie case was missing when the Stewarts finally arrived at the Dorchester Hotel in London. A few days later, Her Majesty’s Customs Service contacted the Stewarts to arrange a meeting.

At the appointed time and place, a young Customs official appeared — with Gloria’s lingerie case in hand. After due courtesies, the awe-struck young movie buff gave Gloria the case, shook the Stewarts’ hands and took his leave from the Hollywood royals."

Dr. Osman Hill Primate Authority
The good doctor was a leading authority on primate anatomy during the 20th century. It says so on his wikipedia page.

"William Charles Osman Hill (13 July 1901 – 25 January 1975) was a British anatomist,primatologist, and a leading authority on primate anatomy during the 20th century. He is best known for his nearly completed eight-volume series, Primates: Comparative Anatomy and Taxonomy, which covered all living and extinct primates known at the time in full detail and contained illustrations created by his wife, Yvonne. Schooled at King Edward VI Camp Hill School for Boys in Birmingham and University of Birmingham, he went on to publish 248 works and accumulated a vast collection of primate specimens that are now stored at the Royal College of Surgeons of England."-- SRC: Wikipedia contributors, "William Charles Osman Hill," Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=William_Charles_Osman_Hill&oldid=451353600 (accessed December 28, 2011).

His Findings?
According to a Toronto Sun Article earlier this year:
Maybe yes. Maybe no. But not human. And not ape. Something in between. Osmond Smith’s  first finding was that the finger bones were “hominid” — the broad anthropological category of upright walkers that includes modern humans and Neanderthals. He later refined that verdict to say the sample was a closer match to Neanderthal than modern human.
Don’t forget, this is  back in 1959 and 1960, loooong before DNA testing.
However, another member of Tom Slick’s scientific team, American anthropologist George Agogino, also received a portion on the Pangboche finger. And in 1991, Agogino turned it over to an NBC program called Unsolved Mysteries — and they did tests.
I’m sorry to say nothing conclusive came from these studies either — not human, not ape — but if you don’t have a yeti to compare your sample to, how ya gonna know it’s a yeti?
Unsolved Mysteries
Below is the clip from unsolved nysteries:


To read what happened next and the DNA results check out our post http://www.bigfootlunchclub.com/2011/12/bbc-news-pangboche-finger-is-human-not.html
Please read our terms of use policy.